"Bolt On Wrangler" Build of The Baja Banshee

[StrizzyChris]

[COLOR="#FF0000"]Build thread Purpose[/COLOR]
The purpose of this thread is to have fun. I will use it to keep the build on track and to hold myself accountable for the build. I also hope it serves as a source of information to other people that are new, like myself, to Building Big!

Just like many other threads, my continued posts will be pics and info of the build. I will post complications encountered, and solutions to those snags, in as much detail as possible. Please feel free to chime in with recommendations, possible complications I should prepare for! Thanks for reading guys!

[COLOR="#FF0000"]Building Background[/COLOR]
So when I purchased my JK, I knew I couldn’t wait to get it topless, go for a cruise on the weekends, and every other spare chance I got. I imagined taking it down in the creek beds and hill sides of my Southern Ohio home town. I have been around fairly stock jeeps my entire life. The majority of add-ons I have helped with were slightly larger than stock MT tires and VERY mild bolt on lifts. These jeeps were a great time and capable of taking me many of the places I wanted to go. Theeeeeeeeen came my JK.

My original plans were to build it like all the old jeeps I’ve always been in and around. Keep it near stock, place a little bit of money in suspension upgrades, go with 33”-35” tires, and install a mild lift. I then found online forums. They sucked me in with numbers, specs, and possibilities. I read and watching people with these insane (in my mind at the time) lift systems that were capable of running 37”, 40”, and even 42” tires. I couldn’t quit reading of the changes they made to accommodate these upgrades.

Then came all the horror stories and failures from improperly building their rig for the functions they wanted it to perform. Many of these failures were due to shotty aftermarket kits and parts that were built for looks and not function. Many were from going too big on a budget and breaking parts (i.e. Axle tubes or inner knuckles) they could have saved by taking their time and “building it backwards”.

[COLOR="#FF0000"]Building it Backwards[/COLOR]
As I continued to read I realized that to properly build my rig, I needed to consider the next part “upstream”. Larger tires place stress on the knuckles and axle tubes. They often require an upgrade in gearing to make up for the loss in torque and fuel economy. A lift system (that is lacking proper components) will misalign the track bars, drive shafts, draglink, etc.

Then you will have to think of all the future added weight. Add a sport cage, heavy bumpers, winch, roof rack, heavy full sized spare tire, etc. and you will place added strain on these components that weren't designed for extreme use.

My original thoughts of 33”-35” tires went quickly to 37’s. I started to think out the build and my mind began flirtting with the possibility of 40’s. I know myself all too well, and that I will later regret not building it capable of handling bigger. I also know that I hate to spend money twice! I then made my mind up to build it for the magic number 40!

[COLOR="#FF0000"]Building it Bolt-on[/COLOR]
I looked at the required components to make an extremely reliable rig and the numbers started to add up. I knew I wanted a Long Arm lift and began noticing that there were MANY good lift systems. Some were bolt-on and some were weld on…..(disclaimer--> I know how to wrench but when it comes to welding and electrical work, my skills are TREMENDOUSLY sub-par. So for anything weld on I would require a professional’s assistance)

I next began contacting shops and quickly realized the labor cost involved in installing the weld on lift kits would range up to and even over $2,500. That’s sometimes more than the cost of the lift itself!!! I could buy my front and rear bumpers with a winch for $2,500!!! Then you factor in other components and you quickly see the cost of install adding up.

This has driven me to research my build for a year. I want to build the best rig I can, while taking all the money saved from installation and reinvesting it into upgraded, more capable, parts.

[StrizzyChris]

[COLOR="#FF0000"]Pending Parts to Purchase[/COLOR] (I have researched but have not yet made my decision to which kit/system I will install)
1- 1 ton axles with 5.38 gearing, 8 on 6.5 lug pattern, lockers and full float rear
2- Bolt-on Long Arm suspension system
3- Drag Link Flip
4- Front Track Bar reloctation
5- 1350 Front and Rear Drive Shafts
6- Electrical system with rocker switches
7- Hydrolic Assist Steering
8- Rear Tire carrier (with or w/o bumper to be determined)
9- Oil Skid
10- Onboard Air System
11- Off Road Lighting
12- 10-12K Winch
13- Sliders
14- Cat Back Exhaust
15- CAI System
16- CB Radio

==================================================

[COLOR="#FF0000"]Purchased Mods[/COLOR]
1- Toyo Open Country MT 40x13.50r17 tires
2- American Racing ATX Slab Beadlock 17x9, 8on6.5” wheels
3- Off Road Evolution bolt on King coilover system
4- Rugged Ridge XHD Stubby Bumper with hoop
5- Flashpaq 3875 Tuner

[inVERt'D]

Soooo...

1. buy a welder.

2. learn to weld.

3. make something cool.

[StrizzyChris]

Soooo...

1. buy a welder.

2. learn to weld.

3. make something cool.

ah, so awesome stuff like this is what I have to look forward to? ....sweet

1-way to be constructive

2-get a personality that doesnt rely on degrading others, or their ideas, to make yourself feel valuble

3-I shall refer to all your ideas only from now on as "the only things that are cool"

[aw12345]

David Inverted is cool, way good at red necking. You are going to find that in a span of several years the bolt on stuff doesn't keep up with your wheeling demands / needs. So then it's either start learning to fab stuff or have somebody like Josh at Leadfoot build you some nice one off custom stuff. By the way the stock Dana 44 JK axles with some embellishments do just fine with 37's.
Needs some welding and what not, but you can make those quite reliable for wheelin on 37's.
Big tires and big axles become a expensive hobby in a hurry, even if you are a way crafty handy dandy do it yourselver

[RAT]

I know you won't listen, but if I had it all to do over again, I would have kept my 2002 TJ just the way it was, all purty and shiny as the day I bought it, and then dropped a few bucks on an old CJ or YJ and built the kind of rig you are planning here. To me it's better because the parts are mostly cheaper (the JKs are the HOT item right now and the aftermarket guys are making a killing on guys like you). On top of that you're not destroying a beautiful new Jeep. I know, I see the Offroad Evo JKs all over the place and man, do they look cool. Whatever... Shine is fine but chrome don't get you home. I can build two nice older CJ, YJ or TJ rigs for what some of the JKs cost for one! But its your money, so go ahead and do what you're gonna do. But remember that you are asking for advice here. You're gonna a shit ton of it and a lot of it you won't like. Just take it all with a grain of salt and use good judgement to weed out the bad and keep the good. What ever you decide to do, I wish you luck. Its a grand time and a lot of fun building a Jeep. And even more fun to take it out and wheel the Hell out of it.

I went the bolt on route for while, and most aftermarket lift kits have their good and bad points. I don't think there is one overall winner in the lift kit market. A lot of it depends on you choosing the right one for what you want to do and making sure it is installed properly and maintained properly afterward. If you go the route of having someone install your bolt on stuff, there are some guys on here that can do it right for you. There's a saying that goes "do you want it done cheap, or right"? Your gonna pay for a good installer. Scrimp on the bling, not the hard parts. You'll hear that the axles in the JK now are capable and more than enough for what you want to do. Again, depends on your driving style. There are guys here running 40s on D44s, (I run 37s on D44s and love it). There are guys that run no more than 35s on D44s. If you use the skinny pedal a lot, go with the D60s. But when you go big, go big everywhere. You already mentioned that. Stress is like shit; it rolls down hill. Big tires stress axles and lockers and ball joints and... You get the idea. I wouldn't spend a lot on bumpers, especially those god awful tractor trailer sized warn poison spider and the like. I've been wheeling for a long time and I can't remember the last time one of my bumpers (home built) touched a rock any harder than a hummingbird kissing a flower. Nice huh? Point is, all that steel weighs the Jeep way down and isn't needed. If you want some cool bling, go see Gerald at SAVVY for some cool aluminum bumpers. Yes they handle 10,000 pound winches, mainly because the winch mounts on its own steel plate. The lighter your rig, the better it will wheel.
One more thing, get a thicker skin; don't let any of us get to you. It's all in fun man.

[aw12345]

Also, try wheelin it as it is for awhile take it to Big Bear and try some of the trails to see A that you like wheelin B what you think needs to be done driving skill wise as well as the Jeeps mechanical part. Then do some thinking what your ultimate goal is as far as your ultimate wheelin rig. Some folks love lawn crawling others just cannot find rocks and fire roads crazy enough for their taste.
This Jeep stuff is a heck of a fun hobby, but can get a bit costly, that's why most of the folks that get serious with it try their hand at building stuff to keep it semi affordable.

[Mike]

What Rat said!

Plus this: Welding is easier than you might think. The cost of the welder and the time it takes you to get a good bead that you are confident in will be far less than the money and time that you will spend on this really cool build. Just my :2:

I like that you are going to plan to go big. It sounds like you've done a fair amount of wheeling so why waste money on stuff that you end up replacing. I like the lessons that I have learned by working my way through a series of improvements, but if I'd spent the total amount of money that I have along the way on what I want now, I'd have what I want instead of trying to figure out how to fund it.

But then again, are any of us ever REALLY done with changing our rigs?

[inVERt'D]

ah, so awesome stuff like this is what I have to look forward to? ....sweet

1-way to be constructive

2-get a personality that doesnt rely on degrading others, or their ideas, to make yourself feel valuble

3-I shall refer to all your ideas only from now on as "the only things that are cool"

Yeah I was having some fun second-guessing the entirety of your master plan, but I meant no offense. These other gentlemen have it right. What I was attempting to share with you was the clarity of thought and simplicity of expression that can only be experienced whilst drinking Pabst Blue Ribbon. To wit, the Zen of Jeep build planning.

You see, what may be bolted together with much effort, will of its own accord come unbolted with great ease. Trust not in Loc-Tite. A few tack welds can go a long way towards preventing disaster.

If you run with the big boys, you will soon learn to weld, or you will wish you had.

Well that's it for now--the Pabst is wearing off. Oh wait, there's one more: wear super-bunch-resistant panties, and you shall avoid foolish behavior. :beer:

[USMC 0369]

[COLOR="darkred"]Guise!! Leave him be!! He's obviously done a lot of research, and has most of his plan already...

I wanna see what a sh*t ton of $$ can do for this rig.

[/COLOR]

[StrizzyChris]

I want to start my reply to everyone's replies as saying thanks for your input. I will answer these reply's with the rational to why I have chosen to go this route. I have not "already made my mind up before asking a question" and I am the first to say that those people are only making posts to get affirmation that they are right. I would greatly enjoy hearing someone say "hey that kit uses isolators...you should really consider this kit because it uses a much superior Johnny Joint".

My purpose of this thread is to ask for constructive criticism as to point out things I may want to add/change/ignore/reconsider within the perameters of this build being Bolt-On and on the proverbial shelf for anyone to buy.

By the way the stock Dana 44 JK axles with some embellishments do just fine with 37's.
Needs some welding and what not, but you can make those quite reliable for wheelin on 37's.

I have a Sahara, so a D30 up front. The tubes and nuckles are the exact same as their D44 counterparts, so making them sound would be simple enough. My complication is putting 5.38 isnt availible OR desireable in that small of a R&P. A stock Rubi D44 on this market is selling for 2K and then dump another grand in just regearing, gusseting. More if I wanted to place chromo shafts, reid nuckles etc etc etc. So my thoughts are....if im paying to upgrade anyways, might as well get er done and go 1-tons! But i agree 100% if I already had the 44's I would do exactly what you mentioned.

I know you won't listen, but if I had it all to do over again, I would have kept my 2002 TJ just the way it was, all purty and shiny as the day I bought it, and then dropped a few bucks on an old CJ or YJ and built the kind of rig you are planning here. But remember that you are asking for advice here. You're gonna a shit ton of it and a lot of it you won't like. Just take it all with a grain of salt and use good judgement to weed out the bad and keep the good. What ever you decide to do, I wish you luck. Its a grand time and a lot of fun building a Jeep. And even more fun to take it out and wheel the Hell out of it.

If you go the route of having someone install your bolt on stuff, there are some guys on here that can do it right for you.

One more thing, get a thicker skin; don't let any of us get to you. It's all in fun man.

My father told me the exact same thing about a new jk on the rocks. I have my brand new Acura TL that is my comfy DD. And I have this as my fun/play vehicle.

I will be doing the full install on my own. I am pretty confident in my wrenching skills, as long as it doesnt get me into electrical or tuning.

I am one of the best at ball busting. It was just a little disheartning that the first comment I get was in short "your idea and your skills suck...develope some skill and do something cool"

Also, try wheelin it as it is for awhile take it to Big Bear and try some of the trails to see A that you like wheelin B what you think needs to be done driving skill wise as well as the Jeeps mechanical part. Then do some thinking what your ultimate goal is as far as your ultimate wheelin rig. Some folks love lawn crawling others just cannot find rocks and fire roads crazy enough for their taste.
This Jeep stuff is a heck of a fun hobby, but can get a bit costly, that's why most of the folks that get serious with it try their hand at building stuff to keep it semi affordable.

I have wheeled in some mannor my whole life. I grew up in the country of southern ohio. Started with 3-wheelers(oh man are those dangerous but damn were they fun!), quads and dirtbikes. It then went to old ford pickups and slightly built up YJ's. I am not a bouncer, but I also know I am going to really push this and myself to see what it can do

Welding is easier than you might think. The cost of the welder and the time it takes you to get a good bead that you are confident in will be far less than the money and time that you will spend on this really cool build.

I like that you are going to plan to go big. It sounds like you've done a fair amount of wheeling so why waste money on stuff that you end up replacing.

I am eager to one day learn to weld. I currently travel around the country for work. This makes fabricating and carrying a welder with me VERY difficult. I dont own a home, as my company pays for my housing, utilities, etc. for the locations I move to.

I have actually done a ton of research over the past year, and am pretty cconfident that a great majority of these components i am about to pull the trigger on will be keepers. But as you already stated, are we ever done making changes?

You see, what may be bolted together with much effort, will of its own accord come unbolted with great ease. Trust not in Loc-Tite. A few tack welds can go a long way towards preventing disaster.

If you run with the big boys, you will soon learn to weld, or you will wish you had.

Whats your view of tack welds on a bolt on kit? This would be an affordible option for me! Doing all the work myself saving thousands in labor and having a local shop hit key components with a tack to prevent the bolts from becoming lose.

[aw12345]

red and green loctite is great stuff. The green goop will break bolts or strip threads before it lets go unless you put some heat to it.
1 ton axles are cool and when you like to get carried away it's nice to just go wheelin at the Hammers park it afterwards and do the same thing again and again. It's the reason I built a Jeep on tons. Still a 200 dollar 14 bolts gets a bit expensive when you add a locker and gears. Front Dana 60 even more so by the time you get some chromemolly axle shafts, 35 spline outers, locker and gears.
Ours isn't a cheap hobby for sure.

[StrizzyChris]

Made a stop yesterday in my "research" for the 1-ton axles I am going to use. That visit was at a little shop some of you guys might have heard of called Dynatrac.

I had spoke to Steve in the past and he is a really nice guy. On this visit, Steve was out of town on an off road trip and, I spoke with Dan Seldon. He is a great guy as well. I was there and we just chatted for a ccouple hours about all things off road. This guy knows his stuff and really personable.

On both occurences I never felt any pressure to buy. Never have they tried to push any expensive upgrades on me that I didnt need. Dan actually gave me recommendations of "not needing" some upgrades for my purpose and told me to save that for other upgrades more suitable.











These guys are one of my front-runners in my axle choice, when I make that decision.

[StrizzyChris]

1 ton axles are cool and when you like to get carried away it's nice to just go wheelin at the Hammers park it afterwards and do the same thing again and again. It's the reason I built a Jeep on tons. Still a 200 dollar 14 bolts gets a bit expensive when you add a locker and gears. Front Dana 60 even more so by the time you get some chromemolly axle shafts, 35 spline outers, locker and gears.
Ours isn't a cheap hobby for sure.

That was my thought as well. 14 bolts daily go for 350-500 and you can find them around 200 or 250. Ford kingpins however are getting quite high. ARB's at a grand a piece and all the stuff you just mentioned really does add up. aaand the labor involved with bracketry, gear install etc etc only adds to that cost.

I am really contemplating the aftermarket new axles like I just posted about. They are more expensive, but all high grade and with a good waranty. I want to be able to beat it to death and not worry about it.

[curtis]

It sounds like you have a good plan for the build. But I would ask the guys on here that run 40's at the Hammers why they don't run them on the street. You might think about buying a 2 wheel drive one and putting in new axles and transfer case.