D30 vs. D44

[GoinCommando]

For sale

Not sold yet D44 front and rear, 60" wms/wms, 4.56, spool/ez-locker both completely rebuilt. TH400 to D20 adapter including trans output shaft and transfer case, dana30/44 53" wms/wms 3.73 open, front 8 lug Chev dana 44 all but rotors, calipers.

[rick]

The outers on a D30 have the same ball joints...bolt right up. By the way, did you sell that axle yet?

[GoinCommando]

D44 bolt pattern

I thought most Wagoneer's had 6 bolt hubs? I guess you can swap on your 5 on 5.5?

[rick]

Well... I'm still debating this question. I have decided that if I do go with a 44, it's going to be a Wagoneer. The width is close enough, so i don't have to worry about shortening the axle. It will remain stock Waggy width, so axle shaft availability will not be an issue as with a cut axle. In fact, that is one of the biggest factors I have considered when debating this - what happens if you need a spare shaft on the trail and you don't have one? Any axle that is custom width mandates that you have full spares, while if you are running a stock 30 with alloys, you can not only get away without carrying spares on every trip, but chances are you will have the stock stuff you started with anyway (unless you broke em). I'm kind of waiting to break the stock 30 ... I think that's what it will take to force me to decide which way to go...

[D4x4Fish]

So Rick did you install the dana 44 in your cj? Iam in the process of building a dana 44 out of a chevy 1/2 ton for my cj7. High steer knuckles, and "MORE" shackle reversal and steering bracket. I need to narrow it 7 1/2". Any "wish I would have done it differant" advise?

[GoinCommando]

Outboard hangers

I haven't had any problems yet with the outboard hangers. It is a pain in the a$$ to build them but works good. The only frame cracking I've had has been normal Jeep crap, steering box area, yak, yak, yak. If I had to do it again I would go with a kit such as the Poison Spyder deal and I believe it is set-up for shackle reversal (I actually saw one of these kits in person and it looked like a very well built conversion). Of course, everything I've put on the Commando has had to be modified so maybe the PS conversion wouldn't work for me. Must be nice for you "bolt-on" guys. Well, if I'm going to modify it anyway, may as well put the D60's on!

[NAILER341]

well, i'll be the guinea pig i have the warn conversion coming.

[sarah]

But the ring and pinion...still a 30 like goodtimes said.

[NAILER341]

here are some numbers that i found...
The Warn axles (bottom) are made from 4340 nickle-chromium-molybdenum alloy steel, have a hardened shaft and yoke, can accept full-circle clips for the U-joints, and are rated at 60,000 lb/in. For comparison, the stockers are 1040 carbon steel rated at 40,000 lb/in; only the shaft is hardened, and they are machined only for stock C-clips. Additionally, as this shot shows, the Warn shafts are larger in diameter before necking down and have a longer spline engagement.
those stock axle numbers are from a tj, which has stronger shafts than a stock cj.
i havent found numbers for a stock 44 yet, but i'm looking. from what i have heard though... the 30 with the warn conversion running the 760 joint is stronger than a stock 44 axle....

Alcan springs are nice and pricey ! For your money I would definately go with a yj spring setup ( cheaper , readily available , And you can have a spring shopp repunch the pincenter hole wherever you want it to locate )

[rick]

Yah Seapahn, those are some mini me's on that jeep... it's a buddy's jeep, so I can't take credit for the tire size selection! You can see the outboard mounted spring hangers, as well as the high clearance steering setup. Nice.

Good point Jim, I was thinking about doing the shackle reversal at the same_ time. That's what Aaron, the dude with the Commando on MJR, did with his. That's a very important point, the axle moves backward instead of forward when the spring lengthens out under flex. Most of the shackle reversal kits that first came out did not account for this. This is not that big a deal if you are making custom mounts anyhow, like you say - just have to plan it out so the front spring hanger is forward a bit more than stock. I saw that poison spyder kit, looks like it might work pretty nice. At least it would save mucho time in making all of the bracketry. The axles I'm looking at are already corrected for castor and pinion angle for this setup, so it would work sw33t without much screwing around.

The other option is to do Alcan springs, where they will bend them to the lift you want and let you specify where you want the axle to mount along the length of the spring. This would eliminate the need to hang the front spring mounts way out at the very front of the axle. I have wondered (mostly while Aaron was building his, not much since), how strong the frame is with the forward mounted spring hangers way up there. I guess it has worked ok for Aaron tho, and he has abused that thing quite a bit with no frame issues as far as I know. Of course, with the kit this isn't even an issue because they move the front spring hanger forward an inch.

Thanks to all for the input, this is turning out to be a nice thread! Now I just have to decide what to do....lol

:shades:

Poison spider has a bolt /weldon kit for doing this . pretty nice set up and it allows for spring adjustments . I have given this a thought , but the problem here lies in the location of the axle as far as front and rear goes . most people do the shackle reversal at this time which is an awesome improvement to do . the only problem is the tires push backwards and usually make contact with the fender rears . Something to think about . If you move the box forward you have to deal a plethera of steering geometry problems . Although a little extra wheelbase never hurt anybody . Just plan this thing out from the get go .

JIM :{>

Rick, a friend of mine in Colorado, went to wider than stock axles on his Jeep. He moved all of the front spring hangers outboard of the frame rails, gussetted them, and then re-inforced them to the opposite frame rail. Looked good, worked awesome, gave him a lot of width which equals and a lot of side-side stability on the trail. Don't be afraid to do it, you know you want to. Anyhoo, he moved the hangers so that he could use the original spring pad location on the axle, and didn't have to shorten them. Thus, it was more cost effective.

I at one point in my Jeeps life, had a set of Wagoneer 44's sitting in the yard. I was planning on doing the same as my friend Darren did. Move the spring hangers. I joined the Navy and sold the axles.

There are not many downfalls that I can see to doing this. Other than having to buy some really wide fender flares. Driveline angles will be fine, steering would just be longer tie rods.

DO IT Dude.

[seapahn]

Nice tires! They almost match

[sarah]

Yes...I'm a post moron. I often fail to check to see who is logged in before I post, since Sarah and I are using the same computer a lot of the time. Note, I am posting as Sarah now...just for tonight (again).

Update: The axles I am looking at are off of a Scout, so they are 60" from wheel mounting surface to WMS, which is 2" wider than my widetrack ('86) CJ-7. That is a minor detail, I would actually not have a problem at all with putting my rear D44 on Sarah's TJ (same width, I think), and putting both of the Scout axles on my CJ.... The problem comes with the mounting position of the springs on a Scout axle. The distance between Scout D44 spring pads is 31", while a CJ measures 27 1/2". This would not be a problem if the brain children engineers that originally designed the Dana axle for the Scout hadn't placed the passenger side spring pad directly next to (basically in) the differential housing. So the way to make it all right would be to either cut the axle down 4" to make it narrow enough to get the spring pads close enough together or weld brackets/front cross member that is wider than the frame to mount the shackle hangers to. Either way sucks. Making the axle narrow means that it would be 2" narrower than my rear axle (I really don't like this idea).

See pic below for spring pad enlightenment and Dana engineering hatred:


Rick :shades: