TJ: Finally got my 44 put in

[brokenujoint]

After ripping out my 30, having 2 knee surgeries, healing, then getting back to the install process, the jeeps been down for a few months. FINALLY got it done.. Driveable anyways. Still need to shorten the front DS several inches and regear the rears 4.56 to match the new 4.88. Had Mr Blaine bend the crap out of the currie drag link . Then had to buy a Currie track bar, stock pitman arm, shorten the driver side inner axle 3/4" to make it work, bought new wheel bearings and warn hub rebuild stuff and a new ruffstuff diff cover...Had issues with 2 replacement driver side knuckles.. About 5 cans of spray paints, a lot of waiting to cure and today I was finally able to pull her out of the garage for a test drive. Needs an alignment but it drives straight as an arrow and zero shimmy. Anyways, Im pretty happy... Back to work tomorrow after being off for 3 months... Not happy about that.... But at least I'm working right? .. and a cool shot of a gif w/my new samsung S4

[inVERt'D]

Nice axle! Do you know what your caster angle ended up being?

[brokenujoint]

Nice axle! Do you know what your caster angle ended up being?

Haven't gotten a proper alignment yet and the driveshaft still needs to be shortened but I put it at +4... I'm sure the alignment shop will be making more than a few adjustments....

[RAT]

Sweet! New axles are like new under wear. You want to show them to everyone! Or is that just me??? Since I don't for sure if Currie sets up the HP D44 inner Cs differently I probably am wrong but +4 caster is gonna make the steering a nighmare. It should be negative, not positive. -4 to -6 or so.

[brokenujoint]

Sweet! New axles are like new under wear. You want to show them to everyone! Or is that just me??? Since I don't for sure if Currie sets up the HP D44 inner Cs differently I probably am wrong but +4 caster is gonna make the steering a nighmare. It should be negative, not positive. -4 to -6 or so.

I dont know about that one RAT.. 10 degrees from where I am now is ALOT. The diff would look like a rockjock and the coils would wanna spring out! at my +4 the coils aren't bowed at all and the pinion angle is about a dead even line to the transfer case's yoke. It might need to go a few degree's either way but certainly not -10 degrees. unless I just have the dial indicator spun 180 and getting a - to + reading.. I mounted the gauge on top of each upper ball joint on ea side of the axle. passenger side facing outboard and driver facing inboard. both read 4+ . Funny story is that when i was 1st trying to set my caster with the upper control arms, I thought i had it eyeballed, i got the gauge on the ball joints. Passenger reading outboard was +4 driver side was outboard -4. took me a while to realize that I had to have the gauge facing the same direction on both sides.... Stupid really. I was about to call Currie and SCREAM.. Your inner C's are 10 degrees off you bleepity bleeps....

[curtis]

There are three wheel alignment specifications:
"Toe" - "toe in" means that the front of the tyres are slightly closer together than the rear. "Toe out" means that the front of the tyres are slightly farther away than they are at the rear. This is typically measured in sixteenths or thirty-seconds of an inch.

"Caster" is the difference in angle between the axes of the ball joint studs (also called the "steering axis,") and a theoretical vertical line, viewed from the side (along the axis of the axle shaft.) Caster is usually the angle that makes steering self-correcting - if the lower ball joint is forward of the theoretical vertical line, you have "positive caster" - if the lower ball joint is aft of the theoretical vertical line, you have "negative caster."

"Camber" is similar, but you are now viewing from the front of the vehicle (you're still referring to the angular difference between a theoretical vertical line and a line through the axes of the ball joint studs.) Positive camber means that the wheel is tilted outwards, while negative camber means it's tilted inwards.

I NEED SOME BLACK COFFEE!!

[aw12345]

Pretty sure he has -4 degrees caster, just depends what you call it. With positive caster that Jeep would be all over the road

[inVERt'D]

I'm pretty sure everyone's talking about the same thing. The lower balljoint (or bottom of kingpin) should always be further forward than the upper balljoint (or top of kingpin). I think I've been cornfused about this in the past myself, but the standard way of describing this in terms of caster angle is positive caster. If the lower balljoint is further forward, caster is positive, if further aft, it's negative caster.

The reason I asked is that in one of the pics above, the pinion looks (as brokenujoint confirmed) to be pointed at the t-case output yoke. With the way the Cs are setup on a stock jeep axle, this would make the caster angle too small (not positive enough) on a vehicle lifted that high. RAT expressed part of what I was wondering, and that is how Currie set up the Cs. If Currie didn't build in more caster, I would expect that vehicle have shimmy and even deathwobble sooner or later. I think a lot of you have come to the same conclusion I have: it's better to have your front pinion yoke pointed "wrong" (for a CV driveshaft) than it is to have too little caster. Would make sense to me if Currie built in more caster for lifted vehicles.

Here's an article with some nice pictures

http://yospeed.com/wheel-alignment-e...er-caster-toe/


EDIT: I don't want to create a wrong emphasis here. Proper caster is like a balancing act. Too little caster is bad; too much caster is bad too, and is probably a frequent cause of DW. Given a particular caster angle, increasing tire size increases the distance between the geometric center of steering and the actual point where steering occurs at the ground. This is a principle known as "mechanical trail." It's easy to understand if you visualize the triangle of the caster angle. The taller this triangle gets, the larger its base gets. The length of the base is the measure of mechanical trail. Another factor that increases with tire size is "pneumatic trail." Pneumatic trail is a measure of how much the tire contact patch moves in response to side loads.

If one tire hits a bump (a road marker/ reflector for instance) at a speed at which the gyroscopic forces of the tires (and entire axle assembly if no unlocked hubs) are sufficient, and the pneumatic trail is sufficiently large enough of a lever, death wobble will occur. This is because a side-to-side oscillation has been set off as the gyroscopic forces working together with mechanical and pneumatic trail will begin to overcome the mechanical steering as they fight each other side to side. So the only way to stop DW once it has started is to slow down enough to reduce the gyroscopic forces. So too much caster is bad too. Dang, didn't mean to write a thesis on it. :zip:

EDIT AGAIN!: I think about +4* is probably a good starting point for 35-37" tires.

[GP4Play]

Alright, y'all got me confused. Yes I know that's a short road, but from what I was told and read, I needed to go positive on my caster. Like the way Curtis said, the lower balljoint goes forward and the pinion goes down.
http://www.jeepfan.com/projects/caster-spring-wedges/

edit; Thanks David, at least I know I'm not the only one.....ahhh yup

[inVERt'D]

Alright, y'all got me confused. Yes I know that's a short road, but from what I was told and read, I needed to go positive on my caster. Like the way Curtis said, the lower balljoint goes forward and the pinion goes down.
http://www.jeepfan.com/projects/caster-spring-wedges/

You are correct, Sir

[brokenujoint]

You are correct, Sir

ok guys, I didn't post up an un-aligned front end to start a debate... I just went back out to the garage and looked at it. The pinion isn't pointed to the sky. with the angle finder squared on top of the upper balljoint on the driver side facing outboard(toward the tire), this is what I read outboard on the passenger side I'll get it at the other side.. I'm assuming that outboard at the driverside is the direction it needs to be facing at both sides. When I put the reader on the shock bracketry it's zero'd out and both lower ends of the inner C's are facing fwd. ...

[WOKNROX]

Looks good..
When I did my 44 swap on my Yj I set it a 8°+ caster and the jeep goes down the road perfect.. with no steering dampener.
The jeep is on 37" bias Irok's too

[brokenujoint]

so im confused here. is the above positive or negative? Common sense tells me left of the 0 is negative. unless of course i just spun the angle finder around then it would be the opposite ....

[WOKNROX]

Well...its kinda confusing.. the 1st photo...shows 7° but with no reference points I can't tell if its + or - caster..
In the 2nd photo I see the reference points but it looks like its set to 0°…
And in the 3rd photo... the one looking down on the C...looks like there is + caster...
That's how I'm seeing it...

[inVERt'D]

ok guys, I didn't post up an un-aligned front end to start a debate... I just went back out to the garage and looked at it. The pinion isn't pointed to the sky. with the angle finder squared on top of the upper balljoint on the driver side facing outboard(toward the tire), this is what I read

I wasn't trying to start a debate either. I was just mildly curious about the way your axle is set up. Carry on...