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T5 Dead after only 210,000 miles

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  • T5 Dead after only 210,000 miles

    Well, the old T5 finally gave up the ghost... The rear mainshaft bearing is wasted, it was making such a horrendous racket when in 5th gear that I had to drive it all the way home from Mojave in 4th. There were some p'ed off truckers! I took it apart and the damage after 210k on it is pretty extensive. Both ends of the mainshaft are messed up (output splines and input/4th gear), all the bearings are wasted, synchros are mostly chewed up with the exception of 3rd/4th, and the reverse gear and idler have pretty gnarly damage on the engagement side. I added it all up in a very nitpicky fashion (if it looks messed up, throw it out), and I'm up to about $850 for parts at 4wd Hardware pricing. I know that's on the high side, but I am thinking maybe it's time for an upgrade. Here are the options:

    The obvious choice is rebuild the stock one. Cost: ~$850. Downside - same weak tranny which will only be worsened by a 4 to 1 tcase.

    Swap in NV4500. Expensive adapters ($750 with bellhousing so that driveline is not 4" longer), awesome 1st gear (5.61 sounds good to me), and a possibly too tall overdrive for my 4.56 axle ratio. Possibility that I would skip a 4 to 1 on the tcase makes this somewhat attractive, since with the stock D300 I would have a crawl ratio of 73.2. I would have to find a pretty cheap junkyard tranny to make this my choice, which is not likely since I have been saying I'm going to get that York out the jyard for six months now... Cost: $750 adapters, $500? - $1700 tranny. Total: $too much

    Swap in T18. I eliminated this thought faster than it came into my mind. I must have overdrive. Moab here we come...all 1500 miles of it.

    Swap in AX15. Debatable strength advantage over T5. Cost: $too much for what you get.

    Buy a rebuilt T5. Cost: ~$500-$1200. Bad idea. I'm sure some places slap new bearings in them and call it good.

    Buy a new T5 Jeep World Class. These guys www.5speeds.com have new (not rebuilt) T5 WCs with roller bearing 2nd and 3rd gearsets (stock only 1st is roller) with Timken countershaft bearings (stock is roller without thrust control), and a countershaft rear bearing reinforcing plate. I talked to them and they say that this tranny is better, but still not up to taking tons of abuse due to the inherent limitations of the gear design (4.03 to 1 1st gear makes for some high torque loads) and the aluminum case. Cost: ~$1400. Simple, drop in replacement.

    Buy a new T5 WC with G-Force gearset. The same guys that make the Jeep WC above also make gearsets with gears that are much beefier and have a shallower helical cut (less thrust load). Uses HD 26 spline input shaft, so a new clutch disk is required (no biggie, planning on replacing it when the stroker is done). The big disadvantage here is gear ratios. They build these primarily for cars, so the ratios are 2.94, 1.94, 1.34, 1.00, 0.80. This is a problem. The only way to get a respectable crawl ratio is with major regearing on everything else. With an Atlas 5 to 1 and 4.88 axles, the ratio is only 71.7, the same as a stock T5 through 4 to 1 tcase. The cost here is prohibitive. Cost: $1800 tranny, $2200 tcase, $300 axle gears. Total: $Insane

    Since I am not only cheap, but also an optimist, I have decided to buy the T5 WC stock ratio tranny new from 5speeds.com and hope I don't break it. Since I did not grenade the stock T5 and most of the gears are in good shape, I think that driven reasonably this tranny will be a sufficient upgrade from stock. This is not much more money than the parts to rebuild mine, and the best part is I don't have to do it. Obviously, I am in need of a 4 to 1 kit for the D300 so that is next. My crawl ratio will be a respectable 73.5. I figure if I break this tranny, I can buy another one and still spend less than what some of the other options cost.

    Of course, if somebody has an NV4500 laying in the garage and they are giving it away, please let me know.

    :shades:
    Rick
    Last edited by rick; 04-21-04, 10:23 AM.
    1986 CJ-7; 4.6L stroker, balanced & blueprinted; 5" lift, 35x1250 MTRs, Poison Spyder Full Width kit,
    My Jeep

    Moab Rocker Knocker Video:shades:

  • #2
    Ok, so I am tending toward the "even cheaper" is better end of things for a solution to this problem... Nailer (in a matter of seconds) found a used T5 which I went and looked at and promptly bought last night for a paltry $180. It appears to be in excellent shape with the exception of the endplay on the input shaft. I think some new bearings and a new thrust bearing on the input shaft will take care of this. The total for parts to do this is ~$80 and I think this thing will be as good as new, although still an aluminum case trans. The synchro teeth all look nice and clean rather than severely grooved as my 210,000 mile tranny looks. I figure this will get me by until someone totals a 2003 1 ton Dodge in front of my house and I manage to sneak the transmission out of it... I hope this thing lasts a while...

    Thanks again Nailer!!! You are the master of all things cheap and good...

    rick
    1986 CJ-7; 4.6L stroker, balanced & blueprinted; 5" lift, 35x1250 MTRs, Poison Spyder Full Width kit,
    My Jeep

    Moab Rocker Knocker Video:shades:

    Comment


    • #3
      Why waste all that time and money stroking the 6 swap in a Chevy V8 and you will a lot more tray choices in the future and the engine weight will be about the same???????
      75 blazer + 81 CJ-7 + 90 Wrangler = Tonka Jeep Dave

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      • #4
        what about a T98?
        89' XJ, lifted, locked, exo caged.

        Comment


        • #5
          Swap in T18. I eliminated this thought faster than it came into my mind. I must have overdrive.
          T-98 is a 4 speed also.

          Why waste all that time and money stroking the 6 swap in a Chevy V8 and you will a lot more tray choices in the future and the engine weight will be about the same???????
          9 - 10 mpg vs. 16 mpg x 1400 miles to Moab and back = $115 more in gas... Yes, that's right - that's just the additional fuel going from 16 mpg to 10 mpg. Last year we spent somewhere over $225 (I lost track after $200 in receipts) on fuel going there and back, at this years gas prices, it will cost over $300. Plus, the stroker is cheaper if you are comparing freshly built engines.

          Wasn't this thread about transmissions?...d'oh.
          1986 CJ-7; 4.6L stroker, balanced & blueprinted; 5" lift, 35x1250 MTRs, Poison Spyder Full Width kit,
          My Jeep

          Moab Rocker Knocker Video:shades:

          Comment


          • #6
            Well... I got the used transmission apart and discovered that the cluster gear was wasted - front bearing ate it up. Luckily, the only thing in my original trans that was good was the cluster gear. So, long story short, cluster gear from the original swapped in with the guts from the used trans with a rebuild kit and all is well. I found a Ford T-5 manual on ebay, but the only thing I used it for was setting the endplay (I found that spec on the net anyway). It was a pretty straightforward rebuild.

            It feels like shifting a Mustang in comparison with the way it felt before... Total cost:

            Used T-5: $180
            Rebuild kit: 85
            ___________________
            Total: $265

            Not bad considering the cost of a new one. It survived Moab, including the drive there and back, so I think everything is all good.
            1986 CJ-7; 4.6L stroker, balanced & blueprinted; 5" lift, 35x1250 MTRs, Poison Spyder Full Width kit,
            My Jeep

            Moab Rocker Knocker Video:shades:

            Comment


            • #7
              Man youre a lucky man...thatd sucked getting stuck somewhere between here and there!
              2002 TJ on 35s a bit of lift with some stuff
              Rock-ItMan all the way around

              Comment


              • #8
                Not lucky, just good... lol I can read a service manual anyhow...
                1986 CJ-7; 4.6L stroker, balanced & blueprinted; 5" lift, 35x1250 MTRs, Poison Spyder Full Width kit,
                My Jeep

                Moab Rocker Knocker Video:shades:

                Comment

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