Big Bear

[Mitch]

Always a tough issue. First and foremost...Thank you to all of the AAT people who have donated their personal time and energy to the preservation and hopeful re-opening of currently closed trails. You giving is not nor should not ever be questioned. I have gladly donated many times myself. It still comes down to the real reason for closing trails that have already been there for 30, 60, and 100 plus years. Those historical trails to mines and other historical areas do not have any impact to our fragile forest. A common reaction to "TREAD LIGHTLY" is accepted, but the waste of our tax dollars and the ugly boulders and piles of brush and limbs to "Disquise" existing trails is embarassing at best. That is what the "Sierra Club" types should be in an outrage over. They post a picture of a tire track where they think it doesn't belong and have a fit, yet this ugly defacing of trails is accepted.

I wish I knew the history behind the "Pontiac" trail. This trail does no harm to the SBNF, obviously has been there for many years, leads to old mines and now a War Memorial to Sgt Rowe. Someone please explain to me how this impacts our forest. A response other than "It is not an authorized trail" would be welcomed. Hundreds if not thousands of people over the years have visited this beautiful place that was once and and should be public land for the public.

Sorry for my opinion if it offends anyone else. That is not the intent. And thank you again to those that help save our trail access. Just don't accept the taking away of trails as a trade off for the future limited access to our lands.

Mitch

[Ol Man]

I want to belong to an AAT group; I've already e-mailed Sarah. But, they are closing trails that ARE maintained. We aren't arguing washed out areas like Surprise Canyon. These trails are driveable -- Pontiac Sluice is great for beginners to learn. The Hammers will EAT newbies!!

Wait a darn minute here....there are a lot of us who have been fighting to save all of our OHV experiences. This goes for easy to hard 4x to motorcycles, to bikes to anything and everything the Sierra Club and their ilk do no like.

Join Blue Ribbon Coalition; join Cal 4 Wheel; join and participate. Go to BLM and FS meetings. Write your representatives.

[aw12345]

Here is the cold hard truth, like it or not. If we cannot get our act together and create a lobbying power at the scope of the NRA of if enough 4 wheelers are NRA members force mister La Piere to do some lobbying for us we can kiss access to public lands goodbye in the long run. What it comes down to is to have lobbying power and political willingness on a local, state and nationwide level. If not for the NRA we would not be allowed gun ownership at the level we do today.
Face it the Sierra club and associated greenies have been lobbying for a long time, they are good at it and have a lot of financial backing. To top it of as a whole they are very well connected politically. So to sum it up start talking to people and organizations that are affected by land closures, which pretty much sums up most outdoors enthusiasts, diabled veterans, diasabled people by enlarge, get organizations that care about their these peoples rights and well being involved and you might get somewhere.
Peeing and moaning and destroying trail blocks is not the answer, short term or long term

[dirtman13]

Ok, I'm new to MJR, so let me try to make amends. I sided with MrBash as agreeing with the frustration that he expressed. I apologize for using foul language, but it is frustrating. Maybe, since I'm new, I shouldn't even voice my opinion. What is frustrating too is that the only answer anyone has as to why trails are closed is: its a political thing. I'm not on here to fight with people that have been doing the same thing I'm starting to enjoy...but sometimes, emotions get the best of me...

Do you even know why you’re frustrated? What trail closures in Big Bear have caused all this frustration? I don’t recall hearing of a trail closure in Big Bear that was because of political reasons. Fact is we gained authorized trails as Pikeman pointed out.

The parts of Cleghorn that were closed were not even authorized trails on the MVUM.

Lots of trails closed because of the recent fires. That’s done for your safety, and to prevent road erosion that could possibly close the trail all together. Thank you Forest Service for working to keep a trail open.

Or is it the winter closures? That’s done for your safety, and to prevent road erosion that could possibly close the trail all together. Thank you Forest Service for working to keep another trail open.

Do some research and find out the true reason for some of the closures. Lots of that info is on this site. We also have a couple individuals on this site that are very involved with the Forest Service and are good resources.

[Pikeman]

A few facts about the SBNF

The SBNF is the only Forest in the Nation that added legal trails the past couple years. The San Bernadino NF has visitors from other National Forests coming to examine Volunteer programs like AAT and the OHV so they can implement them in their area. Because of the success of those two programs and the volunteers working with the -ologist types is why we are keeping and even adding some trails to our system. The SBNF is no longer calling the bypasses illegal, they are calling them unauthorized. This is in hopes to survey and possibly add to the trail system. Once it is called illegal it makes it near impossible to add.

Yes there are some trails we are loosing most of them were never marked or authorized(lightning ridge) and some possible numbered routes(Pontiac Sluice) because of boundary changes and designations. The SBNF is an Off Highway system which means there is a designated trail system marked by DVR markers with trail numbers and difficulty posted. If you go on anything other then a posted route in the NF you are WRONG and not treading lightly. This will and has lead to closures of not only the unmarked bypasses but even of the main trails.

If you don't want to stick to posted authorized trails please stay out of the NF, it makes it harder for the rest of us to keep those trails open. Go enjoy an Off-road area(no route markers, usually the desert) were you can go in any direction you care too. There is a big difference between an Off Highway and an Off road usage area.

[platnumb4x]

I apologize for using foul language, but

An apology followed by a "but" is no longer an apology.

I think the comments got out of hand and there are better ways of expressing yourself without giving other groups ammo against the offroad community.

Think before you type.

[red baron 13]

Let me verify...

Ok, I'm new to MJR, so let me try to make amends. I sided with MrBash as agreeing with the frustration that he expressed. I apologize for using foul language, but it is frustrating. Maybe, since I'm new, I shouldn't even voice my opinion. What is frustrating too is that the only answer anyone has as to why trails are closed is: its a political thing. I'm not on here to fight with people that have been doing the same thing I'm starting to enjoy...but sometimes, emotions get the best of me...

[dirtman13]

I want to belong to an AAT group

Not to many clubs are going to welcome this type of behavior:

Dude, you are WAY mad! I can't believe how mad you are. Its kinda unsettling. I've only seen one other person as mad as you...and that's when I look in the mirror!! I would like to second your ENTIRE post!! I too, am pissed. As a new jeeper, I'm trying to do right (tread lightly, litter patrol, scoop leaked fluids up, respect gates and priv prop). I have winched fallen trees off of trails, given gas to a fellow offroader, provided an ice cold gatorade to a motorcyclist that was w/o any type of hydration. Now, as I can (barely) afford the sport of jeepin; [COLOR=red]all these dumbf***s wanna block trails[/COLOR]. As for the memorial, the forest dept will say ppl can hike up (yea RIGHT). And tree huggers piss me off too. They are like vegetarians...whiny bitches. Anyway, MrBash -- I applaud you for typing your mind. I'm all in for moving boulders on my wknds off...

As you have said you are new to this Jeeping thing so I going to assume you are new to the volunteer programs and the relationships between off roaders and in this case the San Bernardino Forests Service. Fact is we have a lot of supporter’s amongst those “dumbf***s” that have done a lot for our sport. You might want to get your facts straight before you start making accusations that have no merit.

[ocTJ]

When,

If

A trail friendly person realizes that when politicians find profit in keeping the trails open they will dehumanize those that would close the trail. Until someone puts together a bill that would generate money that could be used for something politicians like. There will be no protection

You start a bill that Charges an annual 100 dollar or 150 dollar wildlife use per vehicle. And if any area or road is closed that annual registration fee must be reduced by a percentage greater than the % of closure. So let's say that a group of 20 fanatic green peace hippies threaten to throw themselves off a cliff if we don't close johnson Valley. If a politician see's that would cost his budget 3,000,000 a year in revenue. He'd offer to cut a tree down for their caskets. Once this hobbie generates MORE money for a politician and more Power for that politician or more votes.

We have tried to generate more votes, but the average individual is completely ignorant when it comes to these land protection acts. They dont' read, they just say Oh cool I get to protect forests that I will never visit. but I can tell my friends I protected a tree today.. Vote yes on closure!! They don't comprehend the bigger picture.

You can be a complete moron and vote, hence the reason Obama is in office.

Want to make a difference? Make Jeeping and Off road trails profitable for the state. There isn't enough of us to generate votes, so we need to rely on money. If a politician thinks that shutting down a trail will cost him 6,000,000 in revenue he will pay for add campaigns that demonize those that would "Keep our children locked in the city" and "Attack the rights of the elderly and handicapped to enjoy our forests"

just my .02

[dirtman13]

Can someone post up the best groups to get involved with, aside from MJR, to help fight this battle??

There are lots of organizations out there you can get involved in. The last link is the San Bernardino Adopt a Trail website. It shows all the clubs that have adapted trails in the forest.
http://www.sharetrails.org/
http://www.cal4wheel.com/
http://www.corva.org/
http://www.nationalforestassociation...hvprograms.php
http://www.myjeeprocks.com/aat

To the others,

While it is frustrating to see these trails closed I can assure you that vulgar language and name calling is not going to get you very far. In fact it just gives the tree huggers more ammunition and actually hurts our efforts.

Find a club, get involved and learn to channel the anger in a different way.

[red baron 13]

Pro AAT

I want to belong to an AAT group; I've already e-mailed Sarah. But, they are closing trails that ARE maintained. We aren't arguing washed out areas like Surprise Canyon. These trails are driveable -- Pontiac Sluice is great for beginners to learn. The Hammers will EAT newbies!!

[TipsE-Z]

Can someone post up the best groups to get involved with, aside from MJR, to help fight this battle??

Also, all the trails listed that are closed are on the South side of the lake correct?

[sarah]

Please remember this is a family-friendly site. Trail closures definitely get under everyone's skin, but we need to stick together, stay informed, and not let them get the best of us.

[FishPOET]

But seriously, get involved in saving the trails. Vandalizing the closures just makes things worse.

Thank you for being a voice of reason amongst the ignorance.

[2blk2drs]

Rock drills and dynamite! We can be the Anti AAT group.


But seriously, get involved in saving the trails. Vandalizing the closures just makes things worse.