ACTION ALERT: Doran Dr./ Oddessa Cyn Gate Keeper bypass closed off

[JeepGal]

Time out everyone.

The reality of all of this is that the closure and bypass are on Regional Park Land, and we dont have a legal leg to stand on if they dont accept our help.

We need to remember to stick to the facts and keep our emotions out of this.

Blaine's comments were not said in anger, there is no emotion in them. Please do not read into our conversation. His comments are truly preparing me I need to remain unemotional and factual.

Im very happy everyone is as involved in this subject. We need to use some of this energy and awareness to help fight other land use battles like Johnson Valley. On that note, if you havent yet signed the petition to save Johnson Valley, PLEASE DO SO!

Tam

[mrblaine]

I agree it seams that his goal is to point out that he feels smarter than everyone and wants to pick apart statements and play word games.

I'm not smarter than anybody. If you can't defend your statements and logic to me, one that has exactly zero control or influence over your beloved bypass, then how do you plan on presenting yourself to those that do?

There are a lot of folks that read boards besides those that are registered.

If the best arguement you can come up with is "because that's the way it's always been", then don't bother making the drive to the meeting.

They'll stand there and shoot down every sentiment with a factual presentation that you have no contingency for and no answer to.

[mrblaine]

The reasons and logic have already been discussed in this thread, but here it goes again:

The bypass needs to stay open because if the only way up Doran is through the gatekeeper, it will in time get filled up with rocks from people stacking so their rig can get through, thus becoming easier and less of a challenge. Saving the bypass will keep the gatekeeper challenging for the hardcore guys. Everyone else can use the bypass for the first part of the trail.

Hardcore guys don't care about the Gatekeeper enough to make the drive. I know where the hardcore guys like to spend their time and it's not 10 minutes of fun on Doran.

Basically though, it's starting to appear that there are a lot of sentimental reasons to keep the bypass and very few that are actually dealing with facts.

That's based on what I've read in this thread so far.

[mrblaine]

Bite me.

I'm not sure what your goal is but it doesn't appear to be one that results in the opening of a closed trail. Stop being a troll.

My goal is to gather enough facts about the situation to make an informed decision as to what can be the best solution to this situation.

You still haven't proven to me or anyone else that the closure of the bypass affects the actual trail or even part of a recognized trail other than to offer up "we've always done it that way".

Trust me, if I wanted to troll you, it's much easier than this.

[VVjeepfreak]

[QUOTE=I'm not sure what your goal is but it doesn't appear to be one that results in the opening of a closed trail. Stop being a troll.[/QUOTE]





I agree it seams that his goal is to point out that he feels smarter than everyone and wants to pick apart statements and play word games.

[mpc]

Why does the bypass need to be open?

The reasons and logic have already been discussed in this thread, but here it goes again:

The bypass needs to stay open because if the only way up Doran is through the gatekeeper, it will in time get filled up with rocks from people stacking so their rig can get through, thus becoming easier and less of a challenge. Saving the bypass will keep the gatekeeper challenging for the hardcore guys. Everyone else can use the bypass for the first part of the trail.

[Shadly1]

You're not very good at this, so don't make it worse

Bite me.

I'm not sure what your goal is but it doesn't appear to be one that results in the opening of a closed trail. Stop being a troll.

[mrblaine]

BLM manages the area.

To be clear, in other words, the bypass closure is not on BLM land or under their direct supervision?

[mrblaine]

You're not very good at this, so don't make it worse

I learned to off-road on these trails. They have been similar to the way they are now for YEARS.

I don't care where you learned to offroad and that has exactly zero relevance to this situation. Similar means exactly what?

Similar could mean that there was a paved road up through there. Don't use ambiguous terms when trying to defend something.

How long is "YEARS"? I could say with absolute certainty that YEARS ago the road was asphalt and not be wrong. Be specific.

The point of the matter is that things changed.

That's merely your perspective. The trail actually changes every single time a vehicle passes over it. In actuality, what happened is something changed that you don't like, not that a change occurred.

Not from an act of God, but from the whim of a campground.

So it would be okay if a rainstorm came along and washed away the bypass and denied you access to it that way?

BTW- Judging by the verbiage in the very first post that was put up about this "change", it doesn't appear to be whimsical in the slightest.

What it does appear to be is a campground that derives income from paying customers trying to protect that right.

It also appears from that same verbiage that the ability to "sneak" back and forth is well known by all, especially given that the aerial view maps clearly show the "bypasses" folks have used.

It was not discussed with the people that drive these trails every day.

Just for the sake of discussion, why should the campground discuss loss of revenue with you?

If it's that easy to shut down a trail and receive absolutely no opposition, what would stop someone from shutting down Doran Canyon as a whole?

Well the first reason that comes to mind is that they aren't really shutting down the trail. They are closing a bypass that leaves the trail intact. Did I miss the explanation to the contrary somewhere?

There were public use trails here long before there was a campground.

So did you get a group together and oppose the installation of the campground?

[Shadly1]

I learned to off-road on these trails. They have been similar to the way they are now for YEARS. The point of the matter is that things changed. Not from an act of God, but from the whim of a campground. It was not discussed with the people that drive these trails every day. If it's that easy to shut down a trail and receive absolutely no opposition, what would stop someone from shutting down Doran Canyon as a whole? There were public use trails here long before there was a campground.

[JeepGal]

The bypass and barricade are both on RP property. Who has purview over the actual trail that leads up to the Gatekeeper?

BLM manages the area.

[mrblaine]

Just to clarify, the barricade and bypass are both on Regional Park property, not BLM.

Tam

The bypass and barricade are both on RP property. Who has purview over the actual trail that leads up to the Gatekeeper?

[mrblaine]

It is actually on 2n17x.

Isn't 2n17x one of the routes you can take from Silverwood Lake over to or by Pilot Rock and then on into Arrowhead?

[JeepGal]

Just to clarify, the barricade and bypass are both on Regional Park property, not BLM.

Tam

[Desert Jewel]

The pictures that Julie (Desert Jewel) posted were of Cleghorn (I believe).

It is actually on 2n17x.