Times are changing

[Schmo]

Josh,
I agree with you about the name calling, but that's as far as it goes. When I'm told I have to learn a language that is not the one I grew up with in my country, so that I can communicate with people who have entered this country illigally,a country that, by the way, I served in the military to protect and defend the freedoms you and I enjoy (like the freedom of speech) and those people haven't so much as lifted a finger to do the same, but come here looking for a free ride given to them by bleeding hearts that feel we owe these people something, it pisses me off. Members of my family died to protect this country and the way of life we enjoy, and now it's being given away to people who wouldn't piss on you if you were on fire. Support that if you want, but you won't find many here that agree with you.

Seems like a pretty narrow view of a rather broad group of people. It's unfortunate that some people choose to lump all "illegals" together and label them this way. Most of the "illegals" I've been in contact with are hard working people that came here just like everyone else (including the Puritans, the original wetbacks) . . . seeking a better life. Yes there are bad apples . . . it’s not like we don’t have plenty of citizens that haven’t so much as lifted a finger and are looking for a free ride. Your anger would be better directed at your fellow Americans and elected officials.

[swbooking]

Just as perspective...

How many "illegals" have you seen beging for money on the street? Im going to guess probably none. What are they doing? Selling oranges, flowers, stuffed animals, what ever they can to get buy, but never begging. Doesnt seem like theyre "not lifiting any fingers and expecting handouts" to me...

Now, how many "white", "american", English speaking, people have you seen begging on the sides of the roads? Thats what i thought... I see atleast 3 everyday i drive to school.

[womb raider 940]

Rat. No one is forcing anyone to speak spanish. I grew up in Texas. We are just as much of a part of our friends on the other side of the border.

Not all illegals should be classified in the same boat.

It is no different than saying all gringos are racist, stuck up, do not care about anyone else people.

There are plenty of people here who work hard for a living. I do not know of any illegals who bite out of our life.

Remember when you eat lunch or dinner who picked that food for you. Or when you go to a restaurant or a store. Some people have no idea of the "illegals" around them.

I do believe our system is becoming broken. But we cannot forget about the people who make our life a little more comfortable.

I work in construction slash building slash trades. I see illegals all the time. But they are working. So this is why I responded to this thread. Maybe they are not working in the desert but are definetly working in our cities.

Too bad there isnt a middle point for all of this too work out for both sides.

[womb raider 940]

that video is bogus from 2007

got this from website

The old saying, “Rumor can run around the world before the truth has got its boots on,” is borne out in information circulating on the web and elsewhere that claims the Oregon Department of Forestry (ODF) is firing and demoting fire crew bosses that do not speak Spanish.

This is not the case. Here are the facts:

ODF has no requirement that its employees speak Spanish, and does not demote or fire anyone because they don’t speak Spanish. And to our knowledge, no crew boss on the private contract fire crews we use has ever been fired because of inability to speak Spanish.




link for text

http://www.oregon.gov/ODF/AGENCY_AFF...irements.shtml



I went to dinner and this topic was on my mind. The more I thought about it the more I thought it to be not true.

[swbooking]

Nice, all this hullabaloo for nothing...

As i said in another thread, I love stereo types backed up by uncredited rumors...

Funny how topics like this bring out the worst in some people.

Good work on that find man.

[Geebo]

Thought this was a jeep forum?? Although we are in the off-topic section..Let,s focus on this long weekend and be Thankful for our Freedoms given to us by those who have fought and died for AMERICA!!!..I for one feel tension here and I,m out of xanxax and valuim...

[dirtman13]

Wow. Did this get out of control.

First let me apologize for posting the video. I have finally realized that intelligent conversation can not happen and that name calling and disrespect is usually the only result. That was not my intent.

95% of my staff is Hispanic so I am by no means a racist. I just thought that the situation in the video was wrong.

Josh, that was a nice find and I hope it is true but I can tell you that I have witnessed situations just like this and they are happening.

No one is forcing anyone to speak spanish.

This statement is not true. Both my sons are required to take Spanish as part of there school requirements. I’m not saying that it’s not a good thing it’s just “forcing” them. If they don’t take it they will not graduate. I’m sure that you will also agree that more and more jobs are requiring the candidates to be bi-lingual. So, if this trend continues, which it will. Then in some way you will be forced to speak Spanish. Or not have a job.

Again, I apologize to the ones that may have been offended by some of the post.

[Schmo]

This topic of being forced to learn Spanish or penalized for not speaking Spanish got me thinking.

First of all . . . has it not been a long standing requirement in our education system to study another language? When I was growing up, you could elect to take Spanish, German, or French . . . the school I attended only offered Spanish and French . . . it would not surprise me to hear that due to budget cutbacks and low enrollment into German/French classes that Spanish is all that is offered in some schools now days . . . I don't have much of an issue with this as if I had kids, I'd prefer that they learn Spanish over the others anyway (although with our dependence on China, we might want to consider adding Mandarin and Cantonese to the curriculum). I think it would be a valid argument (especially with the pathetic results of our education system) if you were upset that time was being spent learning another language when the schools can't successfully teach things like English and Math.

But the main question I have is: Who is forcing you to learn Spanish or penalizing you if you don't? It's most certainly not the Spanish speakers! Think about it for a minute . . . you need to learn Spanish for a Customer Service job, why, because the capitalist company that you work for wants their money too and is smart enough to realize that without employees to communicate with them they will lose that business . . . or perhaps the company likes the idea of cheap labor, but needs the supervisor to be able to communicate with the employees.

[Max7]

I did not make up "Operation Wetback". It is a part of American History that helped this country regain jobs for American citizens in the 50's. "First off- let’s just get over the name. Yes, the word “wetback” is considered derogatory, and a racial slur. I get it. The term was initially used to describe (now pay close attention here, folks) ILLEGAL aliens. Notice it was not used to describe legal immigrants. I abhor racial slurs. The only racial slur allowed to be uttered in my home is “red-neck.” However, this is the actual name of the program and I have no control over the language used by people in the 1920’s and 1950’s. So, it would be nice if we can all just be adults and get to the facts." http://www.eeevilconservative.com/ar...etback_ii.html

Should you have doubts about the veracity of this information, enter Operation Wetback into your favorite search engine and confirm it for
yourself.

Are we talking about the same ILLEGAL Spanish-speaking peoples with no apparent interest in real assimilation, no visible interest in playing by the rules, let alone paying taxes.
Oh.. and don’t forget to pay your taxes. 12 million illegal aliens are depending
on you.

The real fear here is that if they rounded up and deported and otherwise drove away all the illegal Mexicans and Guatemalans today, "who would make the beds in the hotels?"

The best answer is: "The children of the people who used to do it, who are mostly currently on the government dole."

Cut off "Aid to Children with Dependent Families" – or whatever this year’s euphemism is – and most unwed mothers would marry their babies’ daddies in short order, out of sheer economic necessity. Why continue this disincentive to forming permanent families, long known to be the best route out of poverty?

Cut off the "disability" checks flowing to all those able-bodied fathers with dubious "psychiatric disabilities" (including alcoholism) that line up at the post office on the first of the month, and we’d have a huge new work force, overnight, all in need of a job.

But that would mean the end of the welfare-state dream, with a concomitant reduction in the power and siphoned-off booty of the welfare-state politicians, wouldn’t it?

http://www.lewrockwell.com/suprynowi...ynowicz64.html

Report illegals, dial 911 for a true National emergency.

Best, Max7

[avjeepfreek]

But the main question I have is: Who is forcing you to learn Spanish or penalizing you if you don't? It's most certainly not the Spanish speakers! Think about it for a minute . . . you need to learn Spanish for a Customer Service job, why, because the capitalist company that you work for wants their money too and is smart enough to realize that without employees to communicate with them they will lose that business . . . or perhaps the company likes the idea of cheap labor, but needs the supervisor to be able to communicate with the employees.

I totally disagree with this whole way of thinking. To say that one should go to another's country and demand that, that country's people learn or use your native language (i.e. Spanish, Italian or whatever) as not to inconvenience you, is stupid.

I spent several years overseas in the military and not once did the locals try and learn english to better communicate with me. I had to learn their languages! The military made it a point to teach us Italian because we worked so closely with the Italian Carabinieri (Italian National Police). If you wanted to eat, you better be able to read the menu and order in Italian. In Fact, I stayed off base in a hotel for months and the front desk clerk would not give me my room key unless I asked for it in Italian! "May I have the key to room two hundred twenty four please".... ("Posso avere la chiave a stanza duecento venti quattro prego".) I'll never forget it!" The same was true in Germany and is very true today in Iraq and Afghanistan.

If you picked up a phone in any other country and dialed a number to a business you wont hear "Press 1 for Italian or Press 2 for English". You'd better be speaking their language or your not getting service! You sure wouldn't pack up and move to Germany and not learn their language so that you could survive in their country!

So, tell me why is it, that America feels the need to be the one that bends over backwards for everyone else! It's ridiculous! One of the main reasons why we have such an influx of "Illegal Aliens" flooding this country is because they know that America's Government will do whatever they can to make their lives easier. They won't have to learn our language, they will get whatever they want and the government will protect them. So, as long as "WE" let them, they will continue to get away with it!

We speak english in America! So, people who come here to be apart of our American culture should learn english and use it period!

"And thats all I have to say about that!"

Scott

[Kodiak Spirit]

you know, the aswer to the 'who's going to do these jobs?' used to be "high school & colledge kids" back in the days when they would actually work their way through school instead of burdening their future with loans before they even have jobs. If you think these young adults are too good to do these jobs, it's because they havent gotten off the teet yet and still live at home with mom & dad. Don't forget that these service industry jobs were never ment to support a family and let people buy houses, they are part time positions to give school kids spending money, nothing more. The idea that these jobs should provide a living wage and health benifits sickens me! Who whould have thought that people would shoot so low and try to sustain a family by flippin' burgers or working at the movie theatre? Do the employers want to apy low wages for these menial jobs? you bet they do. Are there plenty of citizens to do the work that needs to be done? Yes there are! Don't tell us that we can't have hand picked fruit and veggies and clean hotel rooms without hiring people that are in violation of federal law to do so!

still waiting for a counter...

[Schmo]

I did not make up "Operation Wetback". It is a part of American History that helped this country regain jobs for American citizens in the 50's. "First off- let’s just get over the name. Yes, the word “wetback” is considered derogatory, and a racial slur. I get it. The term was initially used to describe (now pay close attention here, folks) ILLEGAL aliens. Notice it was not used to describe legal immigrants. I abhor racial slurs. The only racial slur allowed to be uttered in my home is “red-neck.” However, this is the actual name of the program and I have no control over the language used by people in the 1920’s and 1950’s. So, it would be nice if we can all just be adults and get to the facts." http://www.eeevilconservative.com/ar...etback_ii.html

Should you have doubts about the veracity of this information, enter Operation Wetback into your favorite search engine and confirm it for
yourself.

No one is crediting you with the creation of the word, but rather questioning why you felt it was necessary to bring it up . . . certainly you could have made your point without it. Although you may have missed yet another opportunity to post up another of your infamous links with more rhetoric.

Are we talking about the same ILLEGAL Spanish-speaking peoples with no apparent interest in real assimilation, no visible interest in playing by the rules, let alone paying taxes.
Oh.. and don’t forget to pay your taxes. 12 million illegal aliens are depending on you.

The real fear here is that if they rounded up and deported and otherwise drove away all the illegal Mexicans and Guatemalans today, "who would make the beds in the hotels?"

Nope, just you and the others that hold to the same narrow view and feel the need to stereotype. Funny how you make a point about how you abhor racial slurs, but have no apparent issue with the stereotypes that they are linked to.

[Schmo]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmo
But the main question I have is: Who is forcing you to learn Spanish or penalizing you if you don't? It's most certainly not the Spanish speakers! Think about it for a minute . . . you need to learn Spanish for a Customer Service job, why, because the capitalist company that you work for wants their money too and is smart enough to realize that without employees to communicate with them they will lose that business . . . or perhaps the company likes the idea of cheap labor, but needs the supervisor to be able to communicate with the employees.

I totally disagree with this whole way of thinking. To say that one should go to another's country and demand that, that country's people learn or use your native language (i.e. Spanish, Italian or whatever) as not to inconvenience you, is stupid.

Did you read the statement you quoted prior to responding to it? I did not say that someone should go to another country and demand that their language is spoken (I agree with your point, that would be a ridiculous demand). My point was that it is not the Spanish speakers that are making these demands . . . it is the Americans who want their money or cheap labor. Have you ever gone to a tourist type vacation spot in another country that a lot of Americans frequent? If so, you may have noticed that many of the signs are in English and many of the employees at the hotels, counters, etc speak English . . . it's the same concept . . . they want your money so they learn your language . . . it's as simple as that.

[avjeepfreek]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Max7
Are we talking about the same ILLEGAL Spanish-speaking peoples with no apparent interest in real assimilation, no visible interest in playing by the rules, let alone paying taxes.
Oh.. and don’t forget to pay your taxes. 12 million illegal aliens are depending on you.

Nope, just you and the others that hold to the same narrow veiw and feel the need to steriotype.

There's no stereo typing going on in that statement! Who do you think pays for things such as Medical and Welfare??? The tax paying, legalized citizens of this country do! "Your Killin me smalls!" You don't have a clue what your talking about!

I get it! You'd rather make the attempt to try and make nonsense out of someone else's comments to try and make yourself look smart.

[avjeepfreek]

....you need to learn Spanish for a Customer Service job, why, because the capitalist company that you work for wants their money too and is smart enough to realize that without employees to communicate with them they will lose that business . . . or perhaps the company likes the idea of cheap labor, but needs the supervisor to be able to communicate with the employees.



Did you read the statement you quoted prior to responding to it? I did not say that someone should go to another country and demand that their language is spoken (I agree with your point, that would be a ridiculous demand). My point was that it is not the Spanish speakers that are making these demands . . . it is the Americans who want their money or cheap labor. Have you ever gone to a tourist type vacation spot in another country that a lot of Americans frequent? If so, you may have noticed that many of the signs are in English and many of the employees at the hotels, counters, etc speak English . . . it's the same concept . . . they want your money so they learn your language . . . it's as simple as that.

Yea, I read it! So, let me get this straight.... Your saying, because I'm the supervisor of a company and I have spanish speaking employees or my company caters to spanish speaking individuals, I should have to learn their language to get the job done or get replaced by someone that does! Oh, I don't think so..... They are coming to this country, be it "illegal or not" they should have to speak English period!

We are in AMERICA, and we speak ENGLISH here!