Warn Hub Conversion

[Dukes69]

Isn't that what this is really about? Context and accuracy?

THIS, being MJR, is really about wheeling and having fun, not about arguing who is right and who is wrong. Or who said this and that. If you feel the need to argue on the internet further, I know a good place.

Blaine,
If you have a problem with me or Tammy, you need to PM me and maybe we can work it out. You can even call me if you'd like, my number is in my Signature.

No Hard Feelings
H & K
-Chris

[mrblaine]

Blaine,

We never said it was a daily thing, and we outlined the circumstances that made it happen.

I think the point is, there are things that you can do to a Jeep to contribute to better mileage...we all pretty much know what they are. Chris didnt know I was drafting, and Im not entirely sure I was...but thought it might contribute, so included it.

Our example merely pointed out the best case scenario results.

Tam

Go back and re-read the posts in order. The second disagreement was from Chris stating the following.

-When I disconnected my driveshaft for the trek to Moab, I gained about 1-2 mpg. We disconnected Tammy (Jeepgal's) driveshaft for the moab drive and she got something like 22-24 MPG on the trip. I guess becuase its not true for 2 people, it must not be true for me.


10 foot tall and bulletproof,
Chris Field

I don't see any best case scenario anything in that statement. Do you? If you do, please underline it for me.

Essentially what this boils down to is context and accuracy in context. Perhaps if the statements in question had been made in a thread titled- What are some ways to improve my mileage?, the context would be more appropriate. Even then, I doubt that anyone with a hub kit would tell anyone else to buy the kit to improve their mileage, no in good conscience anyway. But, to jump in 10 foot tall and bulletproof and make a blanket statement that just disconnecting a front driveshaft will net you 22-24 mpg is complete and utter crap. Later, even you admit that the statement is less than forthcoming. Sorry, without the extenuating circumstances explained, that's what it is.

The factor that anyone considering a hub kit needs to be aware of is that in and of itself, (remember, this is a hub kit thread) the hub kit will net you at best 1 mpg and typically for the average driver in everyday driving in this part of the world, that increase is usually not noticed due to the poor aerodynamics at freeway speed.

In reality, I am fairly certain that you could draft, stay below 60, travel long distances without stopping, leave the driveshaft connected and net within 1 percent of your stated mileage. Quite the inverse of the statements intent.

Isn't that what this is really about? Context and accuracy?

[igofshn]

Tam, If you were drafting behind Chris, then you were doing what, maybe 55. That would really help your mileage.

[JeepGal]

Blaine,

We never said it was a daily thing, and we outlined the circumstances that made it happen.

I think the point is, there are things that you can do to a Jeep to contribute to better mileage...we all pretty much know what they are. Chris didnt know I was drafting, and Im not entirely sure I was...but thought it might contribute, so included it.

Our example merely pointed out the best case scenario results.

Tam

[mrblaine]

Chris, I don't think you were lying. I just think you adopted a position to prove everyone or me especially, wrong and left out a few pertinent facts.

You are bound to know that bad gas mileage is one of the things that we will tolerate in order to drive a vehicle we enjoy on many different levels.

Jumping into the middle of a discussion about hub conversions and how to justify them with an outrageous to us claim about phenomenal fuel mileage as if anyone could duplicate your results is a bit myopic.

Now, if you owned a jeep, drove to Moab with no traffic continually, had someone to draft, and were tired of removing your front driveshaft, then your claim would make sense.

But, as you know, and anyone else with a jeep knows, in everyday use, mileage sucks, the hub conversion will not improve it to a point to justify the expense or time to install it.

Everyday use is really what's important as I doubt there are many that would chose a jeep to commute to Moab with.

That's really the context of the discussion, isn't it?

[Old Fart]

" Mileage" doesn't really matter to me Jerry. I can leave my house (Corona), run trails all day in the San Bernardinos, and come home on the same tank of gas. I generally carry a 6 gallon can on the rear rack "just in case", but except for a few times I've run the on board welder - rarely need it. Usually leave 1 gas can and 2 water cans on the rack. That's enough range for me - us old farts need to pee every 200 miles or so anyway

[Jerry Bransford]

If my TJ saw 14 mpg, I'd be happy as a clam. Maybe it could if I kept it at 55 mph on a long trip but that ain't gonna happen.

[Old Fart]

Mileage? What's mileage?

I get about 12-14 (or did the last time I checked), but then I have about as much steel added as a M1 Abrams

[mrblaine]

OK...here ya go.

My Jeep is a 2002 TJ with 3:73's and 33's. I followed Chris up there, and his Jeep is lucky to go 65mph, so more then likely we did an average of 58 or so. I rarely exceeded 2000 rpms. The only other thing I think may have contributed to it, was that I was right behind him the entire way...his Jeep is about 3" taller then mine, so I drafted a bit. I know that COULD be significant, but I dont know by how much. I dont know how close Id have to be to make that be worthwhile.

My speedo is right on.

REALLY. I did get that mileage...but unforntunately, those days are going to be over when I get my 4:56's installed.

Ill tell you what, Ill test it again when we do the next long distance run. Maybe Ill take the Jeep up to Rick and Sarahs in the near future Ill let you know how it goes. The only problem I think we may run into, is that we had NO ZERO NADA traffic. Thats going to cause problems if I cant recreate those conditions.

Tam

I, like most others that use our rigs in daily circumstances, would like to know what your unspecial circumstance, non highway, non long distance, non draft, average daily combined mileage is.

I suspect that it's non magical just like the rest of us and averages about 14-16 miles per gallon on the high side. OR, in the neighborhood of 240-260 miles per tankful.

[JeepGal]

OK...here ya go.

My Jeep is a 2002 TJ with 3:73's and 33's. I followed Chris up there, and his Jeep is lucky to go 65mph, so more then likely we did an average of 58 or so. I rarely exceeded 2000 rpms. The only other thing I think may have contributed to it, was that I was right behind him the entire way...his Jeep is about 3" taller then mine, so I drafted a bit. I know that COULD be significant, but I dont know by how much. I dont know how close Id have to be to make that be worthwhile.

My speedo is right on.

REALLY. I did get that mileage...but unforntunately, those days are going to be over when I get my 4:56's installed.

Ill tell you what, Ill test it again when we do the next long distance run. Maybe Ill take the Jeep up to Rick and Sarahs in the near future Ill let you know how it goes. The only problem I think we may run into, is that we had NO ZERO NADA traffic. Thats going to cause problems if I cant recreate those conditions.

Tam

[4x4garage]

So, if someone comes along and tells me disconnecting the front driveshaft will get 20 + miles to the gallon, why wouldn't I spend 500 to get the same mileage? At the current price of fuel, I'd spend it in a heartbeat. Wouldn't you?

Maybe Il can convince my wife that we need to purchase the conversion to find out what the real MPG improvement is. I mean, its for the good of all humanity! Right?

[mrblaine]

What's the point? I have nothing to prove. Maybe I should put a disclaimer before every post . . .
"Your results may vary."

:cake:

Tam's Jeep has 33's w/ 3.73's . . . that might have something to do with it!

Possibly, but you did post this- I guess becuase its not true for 2 people, it must not be true for me.


10 foot tall and bulletproof,
Chris Field
Which is anything but a disclaimer.

There's a huge difference between stating your results and then doing it the way you did.

33's and 373's are slightly off as far as the stock ratio equivalent. Closer would be 33's and 410's.

While I don't doubt that you got the mileage you say you did, you have to admit that in my experience with 10 jeeps in various combinations of manual and auto trannies , stock to 35 inch tires, 307 to 488 gearing, hub conversions and not, loaded and not, long trips and not and only having ever seen mileage as high as 16, that I may be a tad skeptical of any claim in the 20's just by removing a driveshaft. Can you see where that would make no sense whatsoever?

To compound it, I ran 33's and 4.10's, then went to 35's. Mileage still the same 12-13 that it got stock. Sergey did a test for us and put 4.56's in with 35's and gets 12-13. Since it made little to no difference in the fuel economy, when we built Kat's, I put 35's with 4.56 for a little more power on the hills and her mileage as well as her odometer readings went unchanged and still, with a hub conversion.

We even have a few with 37's daily driven that are around the 12-13 mark.

So, if someone comes along and tells me disconnecting the front driveshaft will get 20 + miles to the gallon, why wouldn't I spend 500 to get the same mileage? At the current price of fuel, I'd spend it in a heartbeat. Wouldn't you?

We caravanned to the 'Con, about 55-60 because of the tow rigs and across the board, all the jeeps needed fuel at nearly the same places. One rig getting +20 would have been the envy of all.

[NAILER341]

goood mooornin eeemmmmmjjjaaaayyyaaaarrrre

well, my jeep prefers the 75-80 mph range for long travel. no vibes, and she will get 15-18 mpg doing it

now you boys settle down, and behave

[Dukes69]

Chris, are you sure the odometer was square on Tammy's Jeep when you got those measurements?

yup. I've checked it with a couple radar deals in town.

[Dukes69]

I've thought about this some more. You know what it's worth to me for Kat's TJ to get 22 mpg? 500 dollars. I'll spend half a grand for her rig to get that mileage. Or, show me how to do it and the half is yours. Motor has to stay, tranny has to stay, already has a hub conversion, basically it has to stay a modified TJ without cutting it up.

I've got my money up, where's yours?

What's the point? I have nothing to prove. Maybe I should put a disclaimer before every post . . .
"Your results may vary."

:cake:

Tam's Jeep has 33's w/ 3.73's . . . that might have something to do with it!